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Apr. 18th, 2014 02:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
succoranceFirst off, I want to say that Lucifer is a really complex and interesting character - one whose difficulty has always deterred me from picking him up - and so I'm really happy to see one in-game! I think his presence is fantastic, and I have to give you major kudos for playing a character who, I think, many others might shy away from due to just how intimidating his lore can make him seem!
Recently, though, there have been a few times when I've been confused by the decisions that Lucifer has made, and I just wanted to address those and see if I couldn't glean a greater understanding of them. Prior to the March boss battle, it seemed that Lucifer saw no problems with what Kagaku was doing - as the figurehead for the alignment that espoused "survival of the fittest" and "might is right," why should he see problems with her killing two magi who were weak enough to be captured by her? However, shortly following the battle, his stance seems to take a sudden 180 - suddenly, Kagaku needed to go, and Lucifer was determined to keep order - to the point that he had no patience for anyone who could not work together with the group of magi led by Kakyoin and Bonnie. I'm curious to know why he had such a drastic change of heart, especially when it was specified that Lucifer didn't care that he himself died during that boss battle, having been accustomed to death.
Beyond this, I'm also wondering about Lucifer's reaction in the aftermath of the April boss battle - namely, his strong condemnation of Lilith. Lucifer, as has been mentioned before, is the figurehead for chaos; chaos is an alignment that takes Darwinistic rule to its worst logical extreme, and I'd wondered why he would react so strongly to two magi - magi who had, at that point in the battle, lost the will to fight and would thus be considered worthless in Darwinistic terms - being killed by someone stronger. Going by the rules that chaos operates on, Lilith was entirely within her rights to kill them - especially since they lacked the willpower to fight for their own survival. Even if Asriel and Pokey could be perceived as being more in-line than Lilith was - more pliant and willing to follow orders for the good of the team that Lucifer had allied himself with - Lucifer has shown himself on multiple occasions to be ruthless to those he perceives as weak, even in his own alignment. This is evident in the second Raidou game, where he uses and then promptly discards Dahn, his chaos hero, in order to get at Raidou - someone not of his alignment, but whom he saw potential in. This is also the case in the Nocturne dramas, where he tricks a child into coming to the belief that he is the Demi-fiend who will choose the new world when, in reality, Lucifer entirely intends for him to die against Kagutsuchi and saw him as nothing more than a pawn to distract everyone from the real Demi-fiend. In both cases, too, the characters he tricked and betrayed were ones who were on his side - both were acting with the belief that they were doing what he wanted of them, and both were wholly susceptible to his influence and control; yet he felt nothing of orchestrating their downfalls.
Furthermore, it seems strange to me that he would condemn Lilith alone so harshly for succumbing to the brainwashing when her two targets - the two that she killed - succumbed just as easily, and to different effect. Neither law nor chaos are above brainwashing, but when it comes to brainwashing someone into being compliant and passively succumbing to their fate vs. brainwashing someone into being more in-tune with their primal instincts and unleashing their suppressed urges, Shin Megami Tensei makes it clear that law tilts towards the former, while chaos tilts towards the latter. His demeanor towards Lilith also sticks out to me particularly because I note that, in Lucifer's application, he is observed to "make it his business to protect demons as a whole." Lilith being a demon, I'm curious to know his reasoning for being so quick to shun her. I note that he's quick to denounce her in his event end thread with Bonnie, despite also saying that he doesn't want to hear a single word of blame going around in the event end.
I wrote a lot up there, but overall I do want to stress that I very much enjoy Lucifer's presence in the game and that I think he adds a lot to our cast of characters. It's great to see that you aren't afraid to cultivate negative CR with him or play him as his truly antagonistic, manipulative self - it can be really tricky with characters like Lucifer, whose very name will set off alarm bells in other characters' minds, and in large I think you do it well!
Recently, though, there have been a few times when I've been confused by the decisions that Lucifer has made, and I just wanted to address those and see if I couldn't glean a greater understanding of them. Prior to the March boss battle, it seemed that Lucifer saw no problems with what Kagaku was doing - as the figurehead for the alignment that espoused "survival of the fittest" and "might is right," why should he see problems with her killing two magi who were weak enough to be captured by her? However, shortly following the battle, his stance seems to take a sudden 180 - suddenly, Kagaku needed to go, and Lucifer was determined to keep order - to the point that he had no patience for anyone who could not work together with the group of magi led by Kakyoin and Bonnie. I'm curious to know why he had such a drastic change of heart, especially when it was specified that Lucifer didn't care that he himself died during that boss battle, having been accustomed to death.
Beyond this, I'm also wondering about Lucifer's reaction in the aftermath of the April boss battle - namely, his strong condemnation of Lilith. Lucifer, as has been mentioned before, is the figurehead for chaos; chaos is an alignment that takes Darwinistic rule to its worst logical extreme, and I'd wondered why he would react so strongly to two magi - magi who had, at that point in the battle, lost the will to fight and would thus be considered worthless in Darwinistic terms - being killed by someone stronger. Going by the rules that chaos operates on, Lilith was entirely within her rights to kill them - especially since they lacked the willpower to fight for their own survival. Even if Asriel and Pokey could be perceived as being more in-line than Lilith was - more pliant and willing to follow orders for the good of the team that Lucifer had allied himself with - Lucifer has shown himself on multiple occasions to be ruthless to those he perceives as weak, even in his own alignment. This is evident in the second Raidou game, where he uses and then promptly discards Dahn, his chaos hero, in order to get at Raidou - someone not of his alignment, but whom he saw potential in. This is also the case in the Nocturne dramas, where he tricks a child into coming to the belief that he is the Demi-fiend who will choose the new world when, in reality, Lucifer entirely intends for him to die against Kagutsuchi and saw him as nothing more than a pawn to distract everyone from the real Demi-fiend. In both cases, too, the characters he tricked and betrayed were ones who were on his side - both were acting with the belief that they were doing what he wanted of them, and both were wholly susceptible to his influence and control; yet he felt nothing of orchestrating their downfalls.
Furthermore, it seems strange to me that he would condemn Lilith alone so harshly for succumbing to the brainwashing when her two targets - the two that she killed - succumbed just as easily, and to different effect. Neither law nor chaos are above brainwashing, but when it comes to brainwashing someone into being compliant and passively succumbing to their fate vs. brainwashing someone into being more in-tune with their primal instincts and unleashing their suppressed urges, Shin Megami Tensei makes it clear that law tilts towards the former, while chaos tilts towards the latter. His demeanor towards Lilith also sticks out to me particularly because I note that, in Lucifer's application, he is observed to "make it his business to protect demons as a whole." Lilith being a demon, I'm curious to know his reasoning for being so quick to shun her. I note that he's quick to denounce her in his event end thread with Bonnie, despite also saying that he doesn't want to hear a single word of blame going around in the event end.
I wrote a lot up there, but overall I do want to stress that I very much enjoy Lucifer's presence in the game and that I think he adds a lot to our cast of characters. It's great to see that you aren't afraid to cultivate negative CR with him or play him as his truly antagonistic, manipulative self - it can be really tricky with characters like Lucifer, whose very name will set off alarm bells in other characters' minds, and in large I think you do it well!
